I Would like to seek your expert advice on the selection of new, affortable bench-top LC/MS/MS systems with APCI and ESI source.

Especially, I am looking for comment / experience sharing on the systems with Ion Traps, for use in the detection/identification of drugs/metabolites from urine samples, e.g. :

a. Agilent 1100 MSD Trap

b. Finnigan LCQ DECA

Any other suggestions of comparable capacity will be appreciated.

Buy the Agilent system, you will not be disappointed

For the work you describe (detection/identification of drugs/metabolites from urine samples), you would be better off with a triple quadrapole instrument. The cost for a trap is somewhat lower but that is the only real advantage. Get your sample analysed by both a trap and a triple quad, let the data tell the story.

If you would go for a trap, my gut feeling tells me to have real good look at what kind of thing you want to do, Agilent uses it as a detector and thermoquest have moor cool software tricks on there. My point of view is that Thermoquest/finnigan is a Mass spec company and Agilent isn't! (no ties with either companie though).

I am looking for a LC-ion trap MS for MS/MS as well. I am considering the LCQ Duo and Deca and the Hitachi ion trap. The Hitachi is not a benchtop, but it acts like one. They have a special interface called a sonic spray, similar to ESI but with more application capabilities. They say it is a "softer" ionization source than ESI. I am having some samples run at their site right now. I am in an analytical and drug metabolism group, so whatever instrument we buy has to be versatile. I will let you know how the results come back.
Rach

our institution has an LCQ deca(bench-top) and it has been simply superb. we have used it for meatbolites, natural products and carbohydrates.

our institution recently purchased an LCQ deca bench top and so far it has been superb. we have used it for metabolites, natural products and carbohydrates

What ionizations source are you using with the Deca? If ESI-how is the performance (fragmentation, etc) with the source? Are you getting any fragmentation before the trap? Thanks for the input.

Our company is considering buying a LC MS. What all things I should consider / look for in a LCMS. Where will I get some basic info on this.

Forget about Agilent MSD Trap. The software is bad and the system stability is terrible. You will not be disappointed with any Finnigan LCQ.

I would recommend ThermoFinnigan. It is, in my opinion, an excellent piece of hardware. MS/MS technique is done nowadays using frequency notch, which is assumed to be more efficient than DC apex isolation. Finnigan is a typical MS company, does the best ion traps (after all, they invented most important things in order to make traps working, i.e. RF ramp and getting rid of the mass shifts) and know the topic the best. Excalibur software is also very, very powerful.
No ties to that company at all, but I work with an old Finnigan ion trap right now. It is a very good instrument, and we have more in the lab as well, including newer LCQ's and triple quads.
Other thing is a good scientific service they provide. I believe the prices are affordable as well. MS/MS capable ion trap with ESI/APCI is available below 100K.

Latest Finigan LC/MS/MS ion-trap instrument equiped with EI/APCI ion source is really a best choice. We have a new one and we are completely satisfacted.

Dr.Alex Weisman
Chemagis Ltd.
Israel

Can someone please comment on quantitative analysis using LC/MS/MS vs. LC/ion trap?

In terms of considering ion traps I would go for the Thermo as (as stated above) they are an MS company (also the Agilent is originally made by Bruker) and have more MS features in their software. I would never go for the Hitachi, as far as I heard about the instrument it seems to be far behind modern IT instruments.
In terms of quantification my personal favorite is still a quadrupole instrument (triple quad) as it is far more linear and far easier to get good quantification with (no overload of trap, no auto gain that may discriminate coeluting small peaks)

regards

Stephan

Thank you for the valuable discussion about an ion trap and a triple quadrupole. Could someone give an idea about the price range of a LC-ion trap MS and a LC-triple quadrupole MS? An ion trap can do MS/MS but a single quadruple can not. If an ion trap is about a half price of a tripe guad and you can afford to get only one LC/MS, is it worth getting a LC-ion trap MS, rather than a single quad? I would appreciat any ideas. Thank you.

xxx

Ion trap CAN do MS/MS, or even MS/MS/MS and more, which is NOT possible at all with a single quad. If one wants to do tandem mass spec for sample identification, then (with a limited budget) ion trap is the only choice. Triple quads are more expensive.
Regards,
Maciej

Does any one have comments on Micromass LC/MS/MS instruments?

Dear Anonymous
In regards to your question, what levels of material are you working with? Is quantitation important to you. Outway the $$$ with time savings and getting the correct answer the first time around. Do not be pursuaided by all the bells and whistle when at issue is the ability to confirm what you are looking for and at the levels your are seeking. All vendors LC and MS make good instrumentation. However, the people that make ion traps will tell you that if it is low level quanitation you are seeking, quadrupole technology is where to be at, whether it is a single or triple. Take a close look at there specifications to confirm this. If your are looking for complimentary MS technigues whereby sensitiveity is not at issue but confirmation is important than maybe an inexpesive Ion trap may suit your needs. Although Ion Traps can perform MS to the 10 th, remember, you are running an LC method,depending on peak width, you probabaly will not get close to <MS4, and if your are looking at low levels that becomes more problematic. As you stated earlier make the comparison, use the samples that you typically run in your lab. Do not use neat standards and spike in a surprise for the vendor. Take a look if they were able to find the surprise. If not ask yourself why? If it take the demo MS specialist an hour to find your surprise, multiply that by 4 or more if you were using the instrumentation.

Good luck

We've just purchased the newer model of the Agilent Ion trap called SL and they've got a new revision of software with even more bells and whistles than ThermoFinnigan. We were very impressed by the service and application people that came to do the install and helped us getting good data out of the system on the week after the install. For a new purchase, I would seriously consider them as well. In the past year, they've hired a number of "real" MS people and they seem to be investing heavily in becoming a so-called "real" MS company. So, for whatever it's worth, when the hardware/software are equivalent or close, you have to think twice about the kind of support you will get in your local area.

Good luck in your purchase,
Richard.

We use a Thermoquest LCDuo for the analysis of pharmaceuticals in water samples of different kinds (after SPE). For identification its great concerning sensitivity and software possibilities (e.g. scan events) but we have great problems with quantification in samples with matrix load.
So for quantification purposes we are looking for a triple-quad.

We use an Esquire 3000 ion trap (Bruker). This system is the better choice than the agilent ion trap, because Bruker is the manufacturer of the agilent ion trap system.


Regards,

Marc (marc.vollenbroeker@byk.com

Yesterday I could run MS 1 2 3 4 5..., today it is impossible. Has anybody faced this problem?
Thank you.