Hello! I just discovered this forum; it looks like a great resource.

We're having a vexing problem with two of our SIL-10ADVP autoinjectors.
They develop a Z-axis offset during sample aspiration. The needle will
move down and stop just after piercing the septum (the motor is still
receiving power, it makes a nasty noise) then proceeds down, stopping
about 1/2" short of the bottom of the vial. No error is produced; the
system is unaware of this, since when it raises the needle it "bangs
its head" against the top of the X-axis truck, on the inside.

Since there's no error condition the injection may consist of any mix
of sample and air. We've watched this thing again and again: there's
no lost motion, slipping of belts or pulleys, etc. Initially we thought
"weak motor", but it easily compresses that stiff spring that holds
pressure on the needle against the needle seal (and that spring is
*not* compressed during this malfunction, which is odd in itself).

Shimadzu has replaced the motor, sensor, wiring, flashed the ROM, etc.
and are as puzzled as we are. Has anyone else seen this condition?

Thanks!

Kevin Smith

Try making an injection with a vial with no cap. Does the motor stall, or slow down, at the same point, or does it go smoothly into the vial? This will help troubleshoot if it is a problem with the motor, the guides, the drive mechanism, or the caps themselves.

Thank you for your reply!

My fault for being ambiguous. This is an intermittent issue but we've only seen it with septa. Tests with no septum, much as you describe, don't produce the problem. We've been able to produce it more frequently by using a vial and tightening the cap *really* tight.

KIS

Browser issues are preventing lenghty replies (I had to paste the initial message).

I would think if it were an issue of difficult penetration or striking an insert (which *does* make it back off and try again) we would see that spring compression. I'll check; perhaps it's interlocked so that it doesn't compress except over the injection port.

KIS

Just checked; you can compress the spring manually when it's over the vial.

Shimadzu autoinjectors are known for this kind of problem ,

Hm. In our experience, we've not had an issue like this with either of the previous 10-series injectors. We have a few SIL-10A still in service, and a bunch of SIL-10AXL. I like the XLs a lot. When they were discontinued, the local rep scoured the country and got us what were probably the last 2 available. (^_^)

KIS

We had Z-axis problems with our SIL-10A's, though it would cause the system to crash. Our problems were apparently caused by a change in the septum used by our vial supplier (not Shimadzu). Changing to a "softer" septum fixed the problem. Are you using Shimadzu vials? If you can, you might also try using the pre-slit septa for the vials.

Anonymous on Friday,



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Thanks for your responses! I've been off a few days, thus the slow reply...

These are the same Sun vials that we've been using for 6-7 years, but that doesn't rule out a change on their end.

KIS

We had also been using Sun vials for many years without a problem, then started to have the Z-axis error. At the time, we noticed no problem using a Chromacol septum. I mentioned this to them and since they had just bought Chromacol, they put together a different package, part number 200 431 for the assembled vial kits. These blue septa are softer than the red/white septa we had been using. By the way, they sent us several septa samples at no charge so we could pick the one that worked best for us. You might tell them about your problem and ask for some samples to see if that will fix it. Good luck.